Speaker1: [00:00:00] And one of the things for me was, you know, I when these things get passed down generationally and you take on different people’s trauma. Those trauma stories get passed down. And then at least in my family, when they would behave in a way that wasn’t appropriate, they would blame the generation before. You know, well, this is why I do this. And, you know, I remember. Yeah, yeah. Like, because if you actually look within, you have to take responsibility at a certain point. And I think we do that in small ways all the time, like not even extreme ways like that that I’m describing in the book. But we don’t take responsibility for our actions and we can only blame people for so long. We have to be adults and look at our circumstances and say, why am I behaving this way? So, yes, this happened. We have the story.

Speaker2: [00:01:08] Welcome to Wealth Management Forward, a podcast about finance, accounting, technology and entrepreneurship. We apply our decades worth of experience and insight into what makes businesses work so we can help others grow both personally and professionally. In this ever evolving marketplace, we help accounting firms and financial advisors grow their practice through the adoption of holistic wealth management services, learn from industry leaders and subject matter experts to unlock the secrets of their success. A podcast that shows people and companies the transformative power of technology so they don’t fear it, but instead harness it. Don’t fight the robots. Team up with them. And here are your hosts, Rory Henry, director of business development and CEO Rob Santos of Arrowroot Family Office.

Speaker3: [00:01:52] All right. Hello, everyone. We have a very special guest joining me today. She is a keynote speaker. She is the CEO of the B3 Method Institute and author of the recently released book Disconnect to Connect tap into the power Within to create the life that you desire. I’m absolutely thrilled to have her join me today. So without further ado, let me introduce our guest, Amy Vetter. Amy, welcome to the show.

Speaker1: [00:02:16] Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Speaker3: [00:02:19] Yes. I mean, I read the book and I told you just before we started recording that it was so valuable to me. And the vulnerability that you showed and you talk about in the book is really eye opening. But for those, you know, can you kind of give maybe a background on what led you to I know you wrote in other books. What led you to write this book and be so vulnerable?

Speaker1: [00:02:43] Yeah. So well, and it means a lot to have you say that about the book. And you know, that’s the biggest thing. When you write a book, you hope that it, you know, has meaning for other people that what you intend for it to have. So it means a lot. So thank you. Um, so. It definitely has been a long journey for me and in my life, just like everybody’s life has their own stories. And, you know, when I wrote Business Balance and Bliss, I originally think I would have written this book, but I wasn’t ready to. And I changed business balance and bliss at, you know, through edits to really shift what that book was. And because it was really like the first time for me as a CPA, I’ve always been speaking, I’ve always been speaking on technology and client advisory services and other very technical, you know, thought leader topics, but definitely to help people build their practices. Yeah. And more and more my yoga training, you know, I really wanted to bring that in to what I was speaking about and talking about business balance. Bliss helped me do that, and I saw the value that it created with people and how it was helping them and their lives. And a lot of times when I’d be interviewed on podcasts like this, yeah.

Speaker1: [00:04:16] Interviewer would say, Well, how did you get there? How did, how did this all begin? And I consider Disconnect to connect the prequel to business, balance and bliss, because it is the story of change and self-awareness and really going deep. And that is the work that each person that wants to go on that journey to change their lives, change how they feel, all of those things. That’s what you do. But it’s hard work because you have to go internal and be really real with yourself. And so I started therapy when I was 32. And through that process and you know, I talk about it in the book, my therapist had actually said to me, You need to write a book. And he had actually was starting his kind of third career in life of being a playwright. Yeah. And he was saying, you know, when people look at you, they wouldn’t know that you have this story. And a lot of people just assume they could never do the things you’re doing if they don’t know your story. And so that was always in my head. And as I would think of stories, I’d keep notes in my phone. Speaker4: [00:05:36] Are you an accountant looking to generate more revenue and secure your future? Success as automation and artificial intelligence revolutionized the accounting profession? If so, contact us at AFO Wealth Management Forward. We specialize in helping accountants and advisors, just like you build a custom brand to pinpoint your optimal clientele, generate highly qualified leads through our data driven digital marketing and execute wealth management growth services to bring more value to your firm and your clients life. Our strategic approach to branding, marketing and wealth management is carefully tailored to attract ideal clients, increase customer retention rates and cultivate lasting relationships with clients across generations. Visit Wealth Management Forward.com to book your free consultation to find out how you can elevate your practice.

Speaker1: [00:06:26] Over the years. So probably for 1012 years was writing notes. You know, for one day if I ever wrote the book. And then from a speaking perspective, when I went out full time professionally to speak. I decided to go to a speaker training because I’d never actually gone to a formal training before. And part of that training included writing a script, and I was going to bring business balance bliss. And the owner of the training school said, Well, you know, do you think you have anything else you want to write? Do you want to write anything new? And I’m like, No, I’m good with this. I want to make it better. And he’s like, So there’s nothing. And I’m like, Well, there is. There is things.

Speaker5: [00:07:17] There’s always.

Speaker3: [00:07:18] Let’s talk about my mother. Yeah.

Speaker1: [00:07:21] Um, but I don’t know if I’m ready to do that yet. And he said, Well, just think about it, because you’re going to have a writing coach and, you know, see what you think. Yeah. So once I was in my head, the challenge was set and I started writing script for the keynote because he was like, test it with audiences to see how they take it and then see what you need to do if you want to do a book. So that was really how it all started. And this book was took the longest to write because it was so personal. But also I didn’t want anyone to get so lost in my story that they weren’t able to brainstorm their own story. So I had to keep paring down the stories as much as possible to get the point across. But so that’s. Speaker3: [00:08:10] That was a pared down version of the stories. Wow. Yeah.

Speaker1: [00:08:17] A lot of stories were taken out. Yeah.

Speaker3: [00:08:19] Well, let’s talk about some of those stories because there’s some very vulnerable stuff that you talk about here and in topics that probably applies to most people out there, like intergenerational trauma and, you know, your grandmother and her upbringing with your or your mother’s upbringing with, you know, her mother, your grandmother, and then how affected, you know, your upbringing and how your mother treated you. Can you talk about that intergenerational trauma and how it really went from your grandma to your mother to to you and you and you try to break that. You were breaking that mold.

Speaker1: [00:08:49] Yeah, it was one of those things that don’t. And again, this book is very much about belief systems. And sometimes we don’t stop and assess our beliefs or our thoughts or why we do the things we do, and we just assume that they’re our own beliefs or our own thoughts without really realizing it actually came from someone else. Yeah. And when you listen, people are telling you that, but a lot of times you kind of push that away because you’re like, No, no, no, I agree with this. You know, you hadn’t really slowed down. And so through my journey, I knew something was off at that time in my life. I didn’t know what it was. I just knew something was off. And, um, and through my own process between yoga and and doing therapy. And really, I think one of the things. That is important for us all is those beliefs, those thoughts, those stories that we carry with us. Sometimes we’ve never assessed them as an adult. Right. And so you’re still thinking like a 16 year old about the story because that’s where you left off. Yeah, but then you go back and think about it older and you’re like, Wait, does that make sense? Is that what I would have thought? You know, is that really me? Is that aligned with me? And really started realizing the patterns of behavior that had happened generationally. I come from a family of immigrants, and so my grandparents were immigrants from from Russia. And there’s a lot that comes from being an immigrant and the scrappiness of being an immigrant, the persecution they’ve gone through, all of those types of things that create behaviors toward another generation and then another generation. And no one really knows why they’re doing those things, but they keep blaming the generation before them.

Speaker5: [00:10:50] Right?

Speaker3: [00:10:52] But it’s ingrained in times. And when you talk about epigenetics and how that affects us and how we’re really transferring that onto the next generation, Can you talk about how that realization I think you talked in the book when you said you felt like there was a piece of glass wedged in between you and your children and you finally were able to realize that you were carrying that burden and trying to get approval from your parents that was affecting your relationship with your children. And once you decided to free yourself, I think, you know, from that we’re able to then have a better relationship with yourself and with your children. Can you kind of talk about that revelation?

Speaker1: [00:11:35] Yeah, and it just was a moment that I realized like this pane of glass had disappeared. And so this kind of goes you had the question before, what are the questions about this book and what things pick up? Like no one’s picked that piece up yet.

Speaker5: [00:11:49] So really? Oh, yeah.

Speaker1: [00:11:51] So that that was a that was a good point to bring up in the book that I talk about because we the work is hard when you’re doing self-assessment and rewiring how you think about something or how you’ve always thought about something and being the kind of personality I am, I’m definitely a pleaser. I wanted to make everyone proud all of the time, and for some reason I just put it every day was starting over again. Like it was just so much work. And you get to kind of a point where you’re just exhausted. Don’t really know why you’re so mentally exhausted until you realize, like, I’m just not getting I’m never making these people proud the way I’d wanted to. Right? And then you also have to assess, are those people actually doing that to you? Are you doing that to yourself? You know, there’s all of these aspects of the way our mind works to make sure we understand how that’s working and one of the things for me was, you know, I when these things get passed down generationally and you take on different people’s trauma. Those trauma stories get passed down. And then at least in my family, when they would behave in a way that wasn’t appropriate, they would blame the generation before. You know, well, this is why I do this. And, you know, I remember.

Speaker1: [00:13:23] Yeah. Like, because if you actually look within, you have to take responsibility at a certain point. And I think we do that in small ways all the time, like not even extreme ways like that that I’m describing in the book. But we don’t take responsibility for our actions and we can only blame people for so long. We have to be adults and look at our circumstances and say, why am I behaving this way? So, yes, this happened. We have the story, but how do I want to walk through life? And, you know, to really change my trajectory, I had to start extracting myself from this because this was not serving me. Yeah, yeah. Serving my family and and really realizing that, which is a very hard thing to break, that it’s not just even a habit, it’s a your mind pulls back at you and you have to really give yourself that framework of awareness of when it clicks in again and you start having that feeling of like, okay, this is my plan, this is where I plan to be right now. I’m not going to revert back, you know, to chasing after this and knowing that my kids, you know, I did not want to pass on this behavioral pattern again once I was aware of it. And to do that, not to say I was re-enacting any of those behaviors, but I had so and this is the same thing in business, even if things are going well, doesn’t mean you don’t have to plan for the future.

Speaker1: [00:15:00] Right. And I didn’t know if when they’re teenagers it was going to pop out. You know, these are it’s conditioning. Right. And so I wanted to make sure it never, ever happened again. And I had to do the work on myself to to to decompose it and get rid of it. And it is very hard because it does pass through the generations. It is everyone starts talking about the same story and using the same story again. And epigenetics is really something that where we carry trauma in our DNA a lot of times when it has been severe. And so one of the examples that I use in the book, this research study, is really about children of Holocaust survivors, that a lot of times they take on the pain of their parents, you know, because they want to make that better for their parents or, you know, if they have a normal childhood, their parents are like, well, I never got to do so. Then they feel guilty about having a normal childhood, whatever that is. And you have to be careful to live in your own existence. It’s very hard to not take on, you know, other people’s stories. Yeah.

Speaker3: [00:16:17] And I studied behavioral finance and a lot of that is our cognitive or emotional biases and understanding. You know, those are heuristics. And I love the talk you do in the book and the importance of mindfulness. We use something called the four R’s, which is recognize. So recognizing that emotion, that thought or that feeling and then reflecting on that. So how does that really fit into your long term goals, your values, your belief systems? And then from there you can then reframe it and look at that more from the cognitive brain rather than the limbic brain. I know you like the work of Jack Kornfield. I’m a big fan of his. His too. So let’s talk about your Yogi experience and your mindfulness. I know you’re very passionate about that. Can you talk about how that when you started doing yoga, how that really kind of shifted and changed your life?

Speaker1: [00:17:14] Well, I do think it was the beginning of my journey. It was just kind of this perfect storm. I’d gotten sick from my pregnancy, so I wasn’t allowed to do the workouts that I normally were doing. The only thing I was allowed to do was to do yoga, which was not the answer I wanted. And and that kind of led me in this therapy path because I’d never gotten still. And I do think that we don’t realize how often we run away from our thoughts. We keep ourselves busy. We do everything we can.

Speaker3: [00:17:48] We self-medicate.

Speaker5: [00:17:49] Yeah. Alcohol, whatever, food. Right?

Speaker1: [00:17:53] Yeah. Whatever that is for you. For me, it was overworking. I mean, I just worked and worked and worked. It kept me busy. I was driven. I was driven to, you know, get to the next level all the time like that. That’s where. And I never questioned anything. Um, but having that, it wasn’t even intentional. You know, through yoga you’re moving in a yoga class, but you really when you’re in yoga, you have to focus. You can’t get distracted because you’ll fall, you know? So, um, that was the first time that I had ever experienced really silencing my mind and not trying to run away from it. And because of that, I started having emotions coming up. I don’t remember crying until that point. Like, I didn’t even cry, you know, because I just felt like that was weakness and I needed to keep moving. And those emotions started coming up for me and I didn’t know what to do with them. And that really did lead me to therapy because I’m like, There’s stuff here. And I couldn’t explain it to anybody at the time. Like, why do you need to go? Like, everything in your life is going really well. You’re a partner in a firm. You’re, you know, you’re accomplishing what you want. You have these two beautiful babies, so forth. What what could be the reason why you need to go to a therapist? I couldn’t explain it except intuitively. I knew I was feeling off and I needed to talk to someone. And that was one of the most courageous things that you can do for anyone in your life is to do that and and how that affects all those other people. It can seem like something that’s just for you, but it’s actually for everyone around you as well.

Speaker3: [00:19:44] Yeah, it’s putting on that oxygen mask first so.

Speaker5: [00:19:46] You can.

Speaker3: [00:19:47] Help others out. Yeah. Yeah. And I know we talked about beforehand, Amy and I just want to say this again. You know, your story had such a profound effect on me. And, you know, I know you had a difficult upbringing, you know, with your parents divorcing and you had financial issues. You know, I was very fortunate. I always say that I come from an all star family where a UCLA family my parents met there in 71, 72. My older brother graduated oh one. My sister won a softball title there as well. And I have a great group of friends as well. So it just people that relationships that are so valuable to me and I told you before we started recording that starting reading your book, I went back to therapy. Because I need to have a I have so many great families and friends and everybody says, oh, Rory, your love so much, but I have to do work on myself, right? Amy? And it’s I have to make sure I love myself. And that’s the difficult part is doing that introspection. And I’m you know, I you had a tough life. I, I just empathize with you so much. And I almost am harder on myself because I’m like, oh, my gosh, someone like Amy has such a tough life. And I had such a good life, but I’m maybe struggling myself and it’s because of me or I’m taking that on myself and I’m working through those things. So I just want to say thank you for being so vulnerable and talking about it. It’s helped me vocalize things to a therapist and helping me work out some of the stuff that I need to do to to grow and to succeed where I want to get to.

Speaker1: [00:21:26] That’s huge. And first of all, to even say it to your listeners, which is important too.

Speaker5: [00:21:33] For you.

Speaker1: [00:21:34] To do that, you know, this is all about, you know, one person plus one person plus one. You know, each individual matters. And one thing that I say in the book that I definitely want to emphasize with what you just said is there’s no comparison of a story. Yeah, like everybody’s got a story, whatever that may be. And that is the one thing we don’t talk about. Those stories in the workplace. We don’t talk about our backstories. Um, not one person’s pain is worse than another person. Everyone’s got to experience things as they are. And, um. You know, that was one thing, you know, growing up and that’s why I had it in there, because each of my brothers and I experienced this very different. And often my mom would say to me, Your pain isn’t as bad as your brother’s or something like that. And so in my head, I would be like, Yeah, she’s right, you know? And then later on I’m like, No, I have my own story. Like I’ve had I have to handle what I’ve had to handle. And everyone’s got a different experience. So it is really important that we realize that each of our lives is our own responsibility, and we walk around with all of these stories and messages in our head that no one can see. Right? Right. Only we know all this chatter and talk that’s happening in our head and everybody else just sees the outside. And so the only one that can actually change that talk or whatever stories are happening is ourselves. Yeah. And it’s for us, right, to just feel better.

Speaker5: [00:23:18] Yeah.

Speaker1: [00:23:18] Or whatever better means to you, right?

Speaker5: [00:23:23] Yeah.

Speaker3: [00:23:25] For sure. And so I agree and but I think the more and more people talk about it, the more people like you, Amy, that are showing vulnerability and putting that out to the world helps people like myself and others really open up and work through through their struggles. So I think that’s the gift of vulnerability. I even did it, you know, in a work setting. I it was with someone that I trust, and I got intimate about some of my personal stuff, and I didn’t know how it was going to be received and it couldn’t have been received any better than than I could have imagined. So even in a in a business sense, like people are welcoming. That vulnerability. They they because everybody is going through tough times. We’re living in a crazy world, right?

Speaker5: [00:24:21] Yeah.

Speaker1: [00:24:23] And I think that’s the thing is we think people are going to think what we have to say is much worse right. Than it is or.

Speaker3: [00:24:31] Make it much worse.

Speaker1: [00:24:34] Um, or like that. They’re going to react to us in a way that we’re thinking is a bad. It’s the way we’re interpreting it. Yeah. And what we find is we actually bond with people more when we share more about who we really are, and we can show up in a more authentic way at work. Like there really shouldn’t be a difference between there shouldn’t us and our personal life and us at work.

Speaker5: [00:25:01] Right, right, right.

Speaker1: [00:25:02] And I think for our generation, so much of it when I was going through being younger was like, well, if you’re in a management position, you should keep it separate. Like you don’t get to know your staff. You don’t, you know, you might have to fire them one day or, you know, things like that. And what I have found is not doing that is makes a much stronger bond. And also when I’m working things out myself as a leader, bringing that to everybody else, you know, and and getting their feedback and learning their stories and what’s holding them back or what they’re stuck on changes the relationship. Yeah.

Speaker3: [00:25:42] That’s culture too. And let’s talk about leadership, because I know what the work you do at the B3 Institute and being vulnerable, I’m sure that, you know, helps out with your leadership. I know you’ve talked about in the book self efficacy or helping people, you know, succeed by having them be having self efficacy. Can you talk about some of those leadership traits that that you that you work on with the people at the B3 Institute?

Speaker1: [00:26:11] Yeah. So, you know, the what I call it in the book is becoming a connected leader. And what that means is kind of what we’ve started to talk about is basically. Instead of when we’re going through change or putting any new thing in place. Trying to do a one to many approach is that we nurture people one by one. So when we better ourselves, understand ourselves and our more self aware of our. Fears what holds us back? What are our patterns of behavior? Then it’s easier to help someone else. Try to navigate through that as well. If we’ve never done the work, it comes off very inauthentic, you know, So we have to show that we’re willing to do the work in order to help others, you know, to get there as well. And I’m very much about, you know. That you work in teams and in groups, and just because you have a title. Doesn’t mean that you’re not transparent with the people that you’re working with so that they can help solve business issues, help you innovate, help you create the space that you want. And when we talk about culture. Many times what happens is people go, the leaders go in their own room, try to solve this. Don’t talk.

Speaker5: [00:27:37] About.

Speaker1: [00:27:38] What’s happening. So staff think nothing’s happening, and then they go solve it without talking to anybody. And then no one appreciates it. And then they get mad that no one appreciates it. So what bring. Speaker3: [00:27:52] People along on that journey? Yes.

Speaker1: [00:27:54] So what I talk about in the book is this perception versus reality that we have what we think is the truth. Our teams have their truth and now we have to figure out where the truth really lies.

Speaker5: [00:28:11] Yeah.

Speaker1: [00:28:12] And in order to do that, we have to come together.

Speaker3: [00:28:15] Truth lies somewhere in between.

Speaker5: [00:28:16] Yes.

Speaker1: [00:28:17] And. And learn how to really be present with people so we can be more observant of reality versus the stories that color our perception that changes our reality. So when we change our thoughts, we change our perception, which changes our reality.

Speaker5: [00:28:36] Yeah.

Speaker3: [00:28:38] Yeah. No, I agree. I’ve had on some behavioral finance experts, Dr. Christy Archuleta, she leads the Financial Therapy Association, you know, and we talked about money scripts and money messages and how many times or our money, our relationship to money is formed in our childhood. And it has such a profound effect on, you know, what occupations we go into. You know, what partner or how our relationships can be with our partner because they have a totally separate money message and money story from their upbringing. I said it’s fascinating because you probably tell a lot about someone’s money script or money story by going to Thanksgiving dinner and seeing how.

Speaker5: [00:29:18] They interact. Speaker3: [00:29:19] With their family. Right. So can you talk about maybe the money messages? Because I know you had an interesting upbringing and what you what how you how your relationship with money was affected by your childhood.

Speaker1: [00:29:36] Yeah. So, you know, during high school, my mom lost her business, so she had made services in multiple cities and she had gone from residential home cleaning to construction cleanup. So much bigger jobs. And when the savings and loan crisis hit, uh, all the construction loans that were paying her defaulted as well, and she wasn’t an accountant in her background or have that business nature and didn’t have an accountant that was proactive, obviously. But you know, talk to her about the risks they weren’t doing.

Speaker3: [00:30:17] There wasn’t cash back then.

Speaker5: [00:30:18] Yeah, exactly. Speaker1: [00:30:20] Um, not even computers, right?

Speaker5: [00:30:22] You know.

Speaker1: [00:30:23] Everything was pretty manual. And so, uh, she ended up having to make a choice of paying her employees or paying her payroll taxes. And obviously her choice was to pay her staff. But in essence, that left our family, um, on the other side of the IRS. And so with that, we had many we had to sell our house. We had to sell everything inside of our house. Um, so I watched having this affluent, you know, affluent, middle class, you know, high end, probably middle class to having nothing. Um, very.

Speaker5: [00:31:06] Quickly. Yeah.

Speaker3: [00:31:07] What really tugged on the heartstrings was the story when your parents separated Amy and she had you call your father? Yes. And asked to drop off groceries?

Speaker5: [00:31:18] Yes.

Speaker3: [00:31:18] And he just left that one bag. So can you can you talk about that? And then I want you to go into maybe the forgiveness part, because you have worked with your have developed a relationship with your father and maybe forgiving him for, you know, that that was a very monumental event in your life.

Speaker1: [00:31:37] Yeah. So, um, you know. I think again, when you’re looking at it from everyone goes into every experience with their own perspective. Yeah, My perspective is I’m a child dependent on my parents. You know, at that time and, you know, my parents had just gotten divorced. They were credited issues. There was all sorts of things happening. And it was a very hard reality that they were so mad at each other. They weren’t thinking outside of themselves. Right. And everybody goes to survival. And so, you know, that’s what happened for me was going to survival that, okay, how am I to get through this? You know, start working three jobs? You know, just anything I could do so that I could try to keep up some of my activities, take care of my brothers, you know, do stuff at home. And so in that there were also a lot of stories being told on either side about each other, which, you know, happens in some divorces, which is not a good thing. And, you know, eventually through, you know, behaviors that had happened over time, I didn’t see my father from the time I was 16 till I was 32. And so in the book, I talk about how I had to redefine forgiveness. And it had been something in my family that I realized and this was also through my process of a belief system that really had been passed down of one. Once someone turns on you, you walk away and you don’t give them another chance, right? And. And that’s it. You cut them out. Yeah. And so all of my family cuts people out, you know. So, you know, I have a bunch of relatives.

Speaker5: [00:33:36] I don’t.

Speaker1: [00:33:36] Know any of.

Speaker5: [00:33:37] Them.

Speaker3: [00:33:37] Yeah, You were just going by the script, right? You were then cutting out your father. Yeah.

Speaker1: [00:33:41] Well, and at the time, it was the right thing. Yeah, it wasn’t something I wanted to do, but it was something that it was. It was a very toxic time. Um, but as I went through therapy in my 30s and now really assessing both sides of the story, realizing, you know, where my thoughts were colored as well and understanding what I knew now about my mom, you know, being older and his experience, you know, with her. And it’s not that I. I didn’t forgive any behaviors that were out of line or shouldn’t have happened. And I think all of us that deal with anything traumatic in our life that, you know, shouldn’t happen to a person beyond financial, but any kind of, you know, trauma. Um. I think there’s a point of forgiveness where it’s like, I’m not going to forgive the action, but what I do have to do is release this. Yeah, right. Because when I.

Speaker5: [00:34:52] Hold, I’m really forgiving.

Speaker3: [00:34:53] Yourself. Yeah.

Speaker5: [00:34:54] Yeah.

Speaker1: [00:34:55] If I keep holding on to it, it’s just creating stress and angst and and all of that in my body. Even though I think I’m being strong. Right. And so that was a big realization for me to go through because it broke a family belief system and pattern of behavior and then trying to redefine what does this mean for the future? It doesn’t mean it’s ever going to be as good as you once thought something was, but how you’re going to move forward so that you can find peace within yourself?

Speaker3: [00:35:28] Yeah. So you mean you broke that intergenerational trauma trauma chain, for lack of a better words and words, Amy? Um, it got me back. I’m a big fan of the author, Mark Goldstein. He has a book called Just Listen, and he’s fantastic, UCLA psychologist. And he talks about getting to someone. He’s they’re they’re so empathizing, really putting yourself in their shoes. And I think that’s what you did, you know, when you looked at it. Oh, well, my father had a certain point of view. He had a certain story. And he made those decisions because of his upbringing and his life. You know, that doesn’t excuse them. Right. But it’s so funny. And I was we were talking about this as I’m writing my book and working on my my personal story. Um, you know, I think it’s so therapeutic. I believe that one, everybody should go to therapy, right? Yeah, Maybe everybody should write a book to tell their story. Because once people understand that, you can then empathize with somebody and understand exactly where they’re coming from because you can see it from their point of view.

Speaker1: [00:36:32] Yeah. And I do, you know, I’m not sure if you’ve read Brené Brown’s book, Atlas of the Heart. Um, it.

Speaker5: [00:36:41] Was one of I have that one.

Speaker3: [00:36:42] That one daring greatly is the one I read.

Speaker5: [00:36:44] Okay.

Speaker1: [00:36:44] Yeah. So this was one of her recent books where she defines a lot of these words with research. Yeah. And empathy is one of them, which I really resonated with what she was talking about in there. And I think it’s important when we hear anybody’s story, we understand what empathy is. Empathy is not pity, right? It’s also not getting so deep into someone’s story that it starts affecting your body and it’s where you can sit alongside someone and be there for them. But not take it on and not make it your story or not. Like then tell your, you know. So it’s like you just have to sit beside someone and be there for them. And I thought that was such a great way of framing it because I think that words used a lot. Yeah. And it and it can be utilized in pity and I loved that. She said like, it’s not pity.

Speaker5: [00:37:42] It’s not pity. Yeah, it’s not sympathy. Yeah, it’s not pity.

Speaker3: [00:37:46] I almost equate it to a sound. Amy. It’s the, uh. Yeah, that can mean. So you’re just listening to somebody because it shows. Oh, okay. I get it.

Speaker5: [00:37:59] Right? I see you.

Speaker3: [00:38:01] I see you. I hear you. Right. So you don’t have to say a word. It’s almost that sound because I do that with when I’m listening to a friends family and I really actively listen deeply. It’s that and it’s happened to me when I’m talking to people about my story, right? It’s like, Oh, I’m here for you. I understand what you’re going through is tough. And then you listen, right? Yeah, right. Awesome. Um, all right. This has been very rewarding. Amy, um, always ask this. Is there anything that you want to share with our audience? You know, we haven’t dived into here.

Speaker1: [00:38:36] Yeah. I just think, you know, everyone’s got a story. Everyone has a journey. And if we. Step back to understand the person next to us, our coworkers and these people around us that, you know, we pass judgment without really understanding anyone. A lot of times it’s just natural human nature, you know, nature to do that. We size people up based on our history. And I do think it would change the workplace if we were able to meet more people with compassion. We see people that might be you don’t like how they react to things you don’t like, that they’re not helping with something or whatever. And rather than taking it personally, it’s not much different than what we talked about from a personal standpoint, understanding it’s their journey. It doesn’t have to do with you. And if you can separate yourself from that and then seek to how you serve and how you help. I think our cultures and our workplace would change tenfold.

Speaker5: [00:39:44] Yeah. Speaker3: [00:39:45] Mean non-attachment. I say if we if we instead of watching cable news or being on your phones and looking at social media and, you know, getting all this crazy news or looking at other people’s stories on their life, if we just read books on empathy and leadership, our society would be a lot better. Like for every one hour of screen time, you got to read a book on leadership and empathy.

Speaker5: [00:40:12] There you go. Right.

Speaker3: [00:40:14] You got to read Amy’s book like you’re on social media. Tick tock for an hour. You got to read, disconnect for connect to connect.

Speaker5: [00:40:19] For an hour. There you go. Yeah. Awesome.

Speaker3: [00:40:22] All right, Amy, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. If someone wants to get in contact with you, what’s the best way to do so?

Speaker1: [00:40:29] Yeah. If you go to Amy Better.com, you’ll find all my social media as Amy Vetter, CPA, and you can contact us through that and see the different programs and books that I have to offer.

Speaker3: [00:40:40] I love it. Fantastic. Thank you so much, Amy.

Speaker2: [00:40:42] Thank you. All opinions impressed by Rob Santos and Rory Henry on this website podcast interview are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Arrowroot Family Office, LLC or their parent or affiliates and may have previously disseminated on television, radio, Internet or another medium. You should not treat any opinion expressed by anyone as a specific inducement to a particular assessment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of their opinions. Past performance is not indicative of future results.